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A Look at May's Labor Statistics

Here is the official news from the U.S. Department of Labor as released on June 1, 2012:  http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf and here is an excerpt in case you do not have time to read the whole report: "Nonfarm payroll employment changed little in May (+69,000), and the unemployment rate was
essentially unchanged at 8.2 percent, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. Employment increased in health care, transportation and warehousing, and wholesale trade but declined in construction. Employment was little changed in most other major industries."

Some of my loyal readers are going to get upset with me and will likely take me to task on what I am about to say. Yes, this report was quite disappointing. Yes, we are still extremely flat with slow job growth and unemployment numbers refusing to decline. No, not all is hopeless because there was some creation of new jobs (69,000) and unemployment did not increase.

What does this mean for job seekers? Simply put, job hunting will still be a huge challenge in coming months but is not absolutely hopeless. If you wish, you could blame your continued unemployment on the numbers and decide to shut down until things get better but they may never get better if we remain stuck in a rut. 

What does this mean for employers? You could look at these numbers and conclude that, as long as statistics remain flat, business will remain flat and there will be no need to hire new staff. How about looking at it another way? While unemployment remains high, the number of talented people out there is also high. Some of those people might actually relish the chance to bring their skills to you at lower wages than they would have four years ago. 

Perhaps it is time for both job seekers and employers to realize that 2012 is not 2008 but that sometimes opportunities can be created. I can almost imagine the responses this blog entry will result in but I am dead serious that we can get things moving if we all open our minds just a bit further.

Steve

7:40 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

I have been looking since the end of January since my contract runs out in August and I knew the job market is tough. After submitting online to around 170 job listings, a hand full of phone interviews, I finally had a face to face interview today that I thought went very well for another contracting position. I will know more on Friday after the other candidate get interviewed. A few hours later I get a call from HR for that company for a full time position in another business unit. I submitted to that job directly on their web sight a while ago, then just submitted to again. They want to move fast and are tying to scheduled something this week. In the mean time a conversion opportunity is in the works for my at my current place of employment, however central HR will have the finally say and things move slow.
So there are jobs out there, it is just getting your resume noticed by the right people at the right time. From what I hear budgets for spots open and close at all different times, so timing plays a big roll nowadays. You just need to keep going at it.

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Harold Levin

9:04 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012

Steve, Congratulations on your drive and proactive efforts! Hopefully, you will share great news soon!

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Prentiss Gray

11:26 am on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

I wouldn't put this at the feet of the administration. This administration has actually eliminated more regulations than it's added. They've also been the force behind most of the recovery. The reasons for the uncertainty is that we've been held hostage by a party in congress that won't work with anyone. Even though government spending has been cut, everyone is getting more tax breaks than ever and healthcare costs could be finally predicted reliably, there is still opposition to any kind of investment to grow the economy. Republicans basically have what they wanted, with the notable exception of banking regulation (which hasn't been rolled out yet) and yet they don't see themselves as failing. Just cutting isn't working, we see it every day but no one's ready to admit it. Change the guard, I agree, but I'd look to congress for the guards to change.

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The Stig

4:42 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

Between Obamacare and the EPA, the US is now being run (over) by the Executive Branch's Federal Regulation Orgy.

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AtlasWillShrug

1:51 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012

Prentiss, the "recovery" that was brought to us by our current administration was caused by nothing other than spending. In fact, the "force behind most of the recovery" is Keynesian spending, all paid for by the tax payers. Government spending has done anything but been cut. The reason why cutting hasn't worked is because it hasn't occurred. You've been mislead to your notion of "uncertainty" seeing as the instability of our financial markets is in fact derived from the crumbling Euro Zone. With the Euro on the brink of collapse, there is no reason for any rational investor to actually invest their money.

Al Iervolino

12:51 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

The president had 2yrs with democratic control of the house and senate. He’s never even proposing a budget since he’s been in office. We are 5 trillion further into debit since he’s been in office, so not sure how you can say he cut spending. He is the most polarizing president ever and not a leader. He has to blame congress for his lack of accomplishments.

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Dan Grant

2:48 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

Al, getting mad at you would be like getting mad at a door you stub your toe on. He is only polarizing to the extent that the hate of the Republicans is vocalized. Actually many of his ideas are Republican Ideas from a more reasonable Republican time. Yes he was President when the DEMOCRATIC party had a majority but they never had control thanks to the super majority the Republics always had the 41 votes to stop everything he wanted to do. You blame him for $5 trillion. Be honest now, how much would he have had to cut to fund Bush's wars and Bush's Tax cuts which make up $3.5 Trillion of that $5 Trillion

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The Stig

4:36 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

Wrong . . . again. From July '09 through February '10 the Dems held 58 seats plus two Independents that caucused with them, thus a super majority of 60 votes.

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VietNam Vet

9:51 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

Al, you are NOT wrong, we are in debt by another $5 trillion dollars, and Dan Grant you are wrong, they were NOT Pres.Bush's wars, they were America's wars. If you remember correctly after 9-11 happened, ALL OF AMERICA was after George W. Bush to go after the bastards who knocked those building down, or do you believe that we did that on our own, just for the heck of it. The WHOLE COUNTRY was behind us and wanted us to go get the pigs, and when President Bush told America we are going to war, everybody was behind him and he said that these were NOT going to be a quick in and out war, but everybody wanted us to go and get them and NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

Al Iervolino

1:03 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

democrat control i don't want dan to get mad at me ! lol

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VietNam Vet

9:53 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

Al I went to Church with Dan Grant at least when he did go, and I don't care who gets mad at me. This moronic muslim pig thief in wash. has got to GO NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prentiss Gray

2:12 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

I'm not sure why you're saying Obama has never proposed a budget, he's done it 3 times, in 2010, 2011 and 2012. I have no idea where you get the 5 trillion number from are you including the 3.5 trillion from the Bush administration budget from 2009?

Anyway, because we're pretty far off the original point here, let me just say Harold's right. Employers and potential employees can make the most of every opportunity. It might be time to look at alternate salary plans that expand with the success of the business, that way employees have some skin in the game and stand to do well if the business does well.

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Al Iervolino

3:18 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

i agree. skin in the game is always good, but then some would complain about bonuses and stock options.

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The Stig

4:38 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

The President has proposed budgets, and every single one has been voted down by the entire Congress in unanimous, or virtual unanimous fashion. The Dems in the Senate, however, have refused to put forth a budget for the past few years.

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Mike

4:04 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012

Bush [brilliantly] left the wars "off the books" for much of his presidency. Obama took them out of whatever special category they were in and put them on the books. The right thing to do, especially from an accounting perspective, but politically dumb as ****.

And it's hysterical to see people "blame" the EPA on Obama. Nixon created it and 300+ million Americans depend on it to TRY to keep air, water, and land as non-toxic as possible, despite the power and influence of polluters. Oh, wait...let the free market sort it out. Yeah, that's the ticket!

Harold Levin

2:27 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

The purposes of blogging (as I see them at least) are to provide informative and interesting reading and to stimulate conversation so i thank everyone for their comments and opinions! BTW, Al, your first reply this morning has disappeared, at least on my screen!

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Al Iervolino

3:15 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

Dan, all you’re doing is making the same excuses the president does. If he were a true leader he would own up and get things done.

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Dan Grant

3:28 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

No Al an excuse is a fiction and what is fictional about what I said ? Please be factual. In fact it is becoming clear as Europe falls apart that the Obama plan which pulled us back from the cliff was what they needed to do and instead they took the course of what the Republicans are advocating. It is failing.

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The Stig

4:41 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

TARP actually pulled us back from the cliff. The Obama stimulus package has provided anemic growth, and now we are likely to get sucked into the European recession. And no, they haven't been following the "Republican Plan," but nice try. They are suffering from decades of socialism and refusing to believe that ever increasing debt to pay for it would never come back to haunt them, which sounds eerily like the Dem's Plan for the US.

Dan Grant

5:18 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

Austerity is killing Europe. Cutting the incomes and putting middle income people out of work is not a plan to help anyone's ecconomy. You have been sold a bill of goods and guess who is benefitting from it. 500 top corporations have a 16 percent increase in profit for 2011 and how many jobs did that amount to? 600,000 public employees cut and how much did that hurt consumer demand and small business not even mentioning the loss of income that was taken from public employees. They are killing the Golden Goose alright but it isn't the so-called "Job Creators" that are getting killed. They are making more than ever.

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AtlasWillShrug

2:05 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012

Austerity is what will save Europe. Each and every country in the Euro zone that is moaning and groaning about having to cut back spending has a public sector that is simply too large to support itself. When the Public sector becomes large enough that tax receipts cannot fund it, debt is incurred to finance the deficit. As is the case with Ireland, Spain, Portugal, etc. the amount of debt that has been incurred is equal to, if not surpassed their own respective GDPs. When this occurs, there is virtually no way to avoid default. The ONLY remedy is to cut costs. As to the top 500 corporations experiencing 16% higher profits, they have cut costs too and look where its gotten them...

Al Iervolino

9:24 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

dan, do you really think austerity is what is killing europe?? i'm sorry that is simply amazing.
They are suffering from decades of socialism and refusing to believe that ever increasing debt to pay for it would never come back to haunt them, which sounds eerily like the Dem's Plan for the US
this is exactly what is killing them. period

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VietNam Vet

10:00 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

This guy Harold is wrong, if he thinks things are getting any better, then he is not looking in this country. Because most people will tell you, they are not any better off now than they were when this idiot took office, he is a disgrace to America and everything we once stood for. We once had people who had the GUTS to stand up and fight for this country, now we just have a bunch of wimps running this country, who thinks its not Politically correct to stand up for what our forefathers were willing to fight to protect. Thats all BS!!!!!!!!!!

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been there done that

10:11 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012

Dan:
Another guy gettingnhis economics from the NYT. Consider this:
1. You gorge on fatty food for twenty years, gaining 100 Lbs
2. You have a heart attack (surprise!)
3. Your doctor days, " you need to lose weight" (surprise again!)
4. You ignore his advice....gain more weight...finally, your family has an intervention and force you to get your stomach stapled
5. Do you:
A. Pout, and claim your family is making you suffer because your double-stuffed Oreo consumption is down;
B. Buckle down, take some short term pain for long term gain, realize your lifestyle was unsustainable, thank God someone finally showed you the light, and live within your waistline

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Dan Grant

4:27 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012

Don't pretend you know my to make a false case. And what would you choose that the guy shouold die before being given healthcare because he didn't make the right choices?

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Curt Carnes

7:55 am on Friday, June 8, 2012

Dan, We are all given the freedom to choose to cover ourselves with healthcare insurance or not. Granted in some cases it can bring a large burden in terms of costs, then again it may save your life. But, at the end of the day, at least in my book, if you elect to buy Cable TV, Internet Services, Computers, Cell Phones, Ipods...... in lieu of healthcare, well then as the old saying goes. You've picked your bed, now don't ask me to come wash your sheets.

Prentiss Gray

9:48 am on Wednesday, June 6, 2012

I'm not surprised when people are confused about which administration spent what, the budget process in Washington is one of the most complex on the planet. However here is a good explanation of the process and a fair record of the spending of all the administrations since Nixon. Not too long a read and not too partisan
http://archive.mises.org/16107/bushs-huge-budget-numbers-blamed-on-obama/

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VietNam Vet

2:18 am on Saturday, June 9, 2012

Curt, you are right but as the democraps have said we need then to make choices for us, because we are all stupid{Their words not mine}. Well I may be a senior but I'm not stupid and I don't need advice from a democrap trying to rape our country. I would like to know from Dan or Tom Wyka, at what age am I supposed to say ooops I hit that age, from now on I have to be stupid, because when I get close I want to avoid it. This is not the country that I went to war and risked my life for, at least then we had a choice and a say in things, NOW the dems say you have no choice and no say, you have to vote the way we do, for an illegal alien muslim pig, and NO he is not my pres. I didn't elect him, I voted for the Hero in the election, the one that had the guts not an idiot.

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Mike

10:45 am on Saturday, June 9, 2012

Paul Brown: At first I thought you were senior citizen, but after reading your post you sound more like a [5th-year] senior in high school. Your hero's choice of VP alone disqualified Him from the highest office in the land. That said, I'm sure if President McCain were in office, unemployment would be at 4% and the Raritan River would flow rich with milk and honey.

Prentiss Gray

9:52 am on Wednesday, June 6, 2012

Harold, I'm not sure of your point about people complaining about bonuses and stock options. can you explain?

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Harold Levin

11:38 am on Wednesday, June 6, 2012

Prentiss, not sure what you are referring to as I dont see that in my blog entry.

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VietNam Vet

1:26 am on Sunday, June 10, 2012

Mike, you will never know, but I can tell you that this country is going in the wrong direction, but people like you and Dan and Tom are so full of yourselves, that you 3 probably believe in Santa Claus as well. This moron that you and Dan think is a pres. is nothing, in order to be a President you have to be a leader, and this jerk has yet to show any leadership in the last 4 years. So as Dan said I have no respect for him as a pres., you are right, first to get respect you must give respect and he has done nothing to warrant that from me or most of this country. I fought for this country and today it is a disgrace, you I can imagine ran to Canada or dodged the draft or you just a young punk who hasn't gt the guts to risk your life for the country you love, if you even do, I doubt it...

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Mike

8:16 am on Sunday, June 10, 2012

Paul: thank you for proving the hypocrisy of your "side."

1) While I commend and respect that you served in the military, that alone is not sufficient to warrant leading it.

2) I wasn't yet a teenager when Nixon resigned. Then again, your side would probably get aroused at the thought of 10-yr-old lib'ruhls being sent to war (see #4 below). Iran (Khomeini ) sent children across mine fields to clear them. I'll bet that gave you joy.

3) Your heroes Bush (AWOL) and Cheney (Mr Five Deferments) are notorious draft-dodgers, as is my avatar, El Rushbo (pilonidal cyst).

4) Your current champion, Willard Mitt Romney, took it a step further: "In 1966 during the Viet Nam war, Romney attended Stanford University in California and while hundreds-of-thousands of young Americans across the nation were protesting the war and the ever-expanding military draft, Willard was participating in a PRO-draft demonstration to support sending young Americans to fight and die in South East Asia. While Romney’s classmates were protesting a test designed to help authorities decide who was eligible for the draft, he joined 150 other conservatives to show their SUPPORT for expanding the draft. Willard did not just join demonstrators, he told a protest leader that “he had some experience with the press, and that he would handle the press for him if he wanted him to.”

To return to the blog topic, jobs: tax cuts for the rich do not spawn demand. No demand = no new jobs.

Dan Grant

11:04 am on Wednesday, June 6, 2012

The NYT has been demonized by a fat drug addicted overblown racist on WABC. In any other time in America he would have been removed from the airwaves and you want to talk about returning to the values of America? There are tens of thousands of minority men and women in jail for long periods of time for a lot less drugs than he was buying on a regular basis. So what values are you standing up for. In the past we have had leaders do exactly what this President is trying to do. FDR had many public work programs to help people get back on their feet. We had major public improvment projects throughout the 50s and 60,. We had the interstate highway system being built and space exploration which led private manufacturing jobs and university research leading to commercial innovation. You talk about the leaders? We had people with guts and Obama is trying to rekindle that spirit and all he runs into is hate, venom and partisanship.

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The Stig

11:19 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012

Calling Obama a "Leader" is the funniest thing I heard all week. Instead of working on the economy, he shot his wad on Obamacare. As for Public Works projects, even Obama had to admit that all the "Shovel Ready" stuff he was shoveling was all BS.

Liberals have erected such a bureaucracy that no infrastructure project can happen in less than half a decade. And when something does get built, it requires "Prevailing Wage," aka Overpriced Union Labor and Union Work Rules.

Back in FDR's day he was able to put a lot of people to work quickly because projects could get green-lighted, and wages were reasonable, so an $800B stimulus package would have put a lot of people to work.

Nowadays, that money will pay for three union plumbers, two iron workers and a partridge in a pear tree. But you'll have to wait until the EPA, Army Corps of Engineers, Transportation Dept, State Dept and the Man in the Moon do exhaustive studies and hopefully say "Ok."

Even a private project, like the Keystone Pipeline, gets delayed and delayed and delayed. It's Exhibit #1 as to why Obama doesn't have a clue how make things happen that would be good for the economy.

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VietNam Vet

12:25 am on Monday, June 11, 2012

Mike, yes I went to war, I served 2 tours in Viet Nam because I wanted to. I enlisted in the Army and I volunteered to go to Viet Nam and after I came back from Nam, I was here for a few months and decided to go back, and after that I tried for the third time, and No I was not into drugs, never took them or smoked them in my life. As for jobs you explain just how many ligitimate jobs this idiot has actually created. I'm not talking the ones he talks about each month, which is a crock, because these are jobs people who came off of unemployment because their benefits have run out.

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Mike

8:31 am on Monday, June 11, 2012

@Paul Brown: You're statement, "...and No I was not into drugs, never took them or smoked them in my life." is awfully defensive. No one here said or suggested you were on drugs.

Jobs are created by DEMAND for goods and services, not presidents (though their influence on policy has an indirect effect). Starving the middle class and reducing their real income REDUCES that demand. Give a big tax cut (say, $1 million) to a very wealthy person and what will he do with it? Put it into the stock market*, which creates NO jobs (at least not in the US). Now, put the same $1M into the hands of, say, 1000 middle class people, and they will buy a LOT of goods and services, which = demand which = more jobs. Multiply this by thousands or millions to get the jist of how tax cuts work. And before you can say "austerity," how's that working out in Greece, Spain, etc.??

Trickle-down is warm, yellow, and untrue.

*it is oft-repeated that this money builds factories. Baloney! If I buy 100 shares of Exxon-Mobil stock, that money goes to a person or mutual fund (the seller), NOT Exxon-Mobil! The ONLY time that money goes to the actual employer is at IPO.

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Dan Grant

11:08 am on Monday, June 11, 2012

Mike, you are right on the money and under this reduction in public jobs and incomes we have stepped down demand dramatically. Christie and the municipalities have taken up to $6000.00 from tens of thosands of public workers from their take home pay and directed that toward the pension system for investment and the Heralthcare industry. That means those people cut down on buying products and services from NJ business. Not as many dinners out, hold off on a car purchase or a home improvement all of which effect our ecconomy more than little Stevie Forbes getting a tax cut. Forbes has claimed credit for designing the Whitman Tax cuts of the 90's which are in fact where the pension debacle and excellerated property taxes began.

Prentiss Gray

3:56 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012

Sorry I misread the poster's name, my post was directed at Al Lervolino.

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Al Iervolino

6:18 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012

I was referring to your comment about skin in the game. By doing so you may be compensated by a bonus or options and that can be view negatively by some. That’s all.

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Prentiss Gray

9:38 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012

Good point, incentives like profit sharing have to be applied across the board or there will be a lot of disenfranchised feelings. Beyond that, to your point compensation information is always kept private in private companies because releasing that kind of information is the fastest way to cause dissatisfaction.

Curt Carnes

4:46 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012

Dan, I'm not sure who drank more of Obama's Cool Aid. You or Peggy? BTW, where is Peggy today? Some say she and her family have been whisked off into the "Witness Protection Program," so she can't be interviewed!

You do remember Peggy, don't you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

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Dan Grant

11:08 am on Thursday, June 7, 2012

Harold, sorry your blog, like most, is hijacked into the national discussion of left vs right but it is a big part of the problem. I commend your efforts in a positive attempt to help people. One of the biggest problems is th number of people who ought to be in their prime earning years who have been laid off and can't even get an interview because of their age. Then their are people like me who are over sixty and been in a field for 30-40 years and are beinging interviewed by people in their 30s who tune them out in second because they are too old to hire. Some of us both have to work and want to work.

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Prentiss Gray

12:05 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012

That's really not very smart. When I was last hiring I always (possibly unfairly) looked for older more experienced workers. They got things done without having every detail explained to them, communicated well, weren't clock watchers and were generally more professional. I got less resistance, had to deal with less problems personally and could mostly let them run with a project and have to check in less frequently.

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VietNam Vet

1:40 am on Sunday, June 10, 2012

Dan, as a politician you haven't worked a day in your life or you would know what its like and you wouldn't be out to stick it to ALL AMERICANS by voting for an idiot who's only is to destroy this country. He has plenty of chances to put people back to work and all he has managed to do is lie and put people on welfare and food stamps. Not one of his polices has worked, no matter who's polices they were they didn't work then so why does he think they are going to work now. You will just go back to what politicians do best, lie to the American people who were stupid enough to put you guys there so you can. Why don't you just admit this jerk is an idiot and do what you were supposed to do for the people who put you there. I went to a business meeting one time and a politician from the Florio admin. was there and he was ask a question and he said to us " If we told you what he was really going to do, would you have voted for him" Politicians lie so much everyday they start to believe their own lies.

Harold Levin

12:13 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012

Dan and Prentiss, you both made very good points in your recent replies. Dan, it is extremely frsutrating out there but sometimes you can get past the initial screener by trying to answer questions as simply as possible using the buzz words (and I absolutely hate saying this!) found in the original posting. Once you arrive at the true hiring authority your chances are vastly improved. Prentiss, wish there were ore hiring managers out there using your methodology!

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Dan Grant

12:49 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012

You would laugh, I was working with an independent car dealership when the financing Bank showed up. They had been taken over by Royal Bank of Scotland and were closing many of the American credit accounts. They gave the small business 90 Days to repay a $2.5 million floor plan account. The Principles said to the Bank Rep, "Here are the keys, you sell the vehicles. We are leaving." The bank backed off but not long enough to save the company and 31 people were put out of work, including me. When I went to unemployment I had to take a class given by them and my first day of the class the instructor told me to forget it, I was too old to be hired. My only alternative was to start up my own thing again and while I am day by day I do survive.

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Steve

2:19 pm on Thursday, June 7, 2012

Dan, I would not listen to that instructor, crazy that they would say such a thing.

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Curt Carnes

7:46 am on Friday, June 8, 2012

Dan, Most of your posts seem to support Big Government and Controlled Labor (Unions) so I was Shocked to see your reference to Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) causing the demise of your job. Apparently you are unaware that RBS was taken over by the government sometime ago, and now under government orders, is revamping its business model and part of that new Government Mandated Order, is the reason your car dealership ran into the snag it ran into!

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Prentiss Gray

8:05 am on Friday, June 8, 2012

I think it's fairer to look at why RBS had to be taken over, which is starting the story a little earlier than your narrative. RBS was clearly acting in irresponsible ways with it's clients funds, suffered huge losses and had to be taken over and re-capitalized to prevent the financial devastation of thousands upon thousands of businesses and depositors. Yes, the agency that took over RBS had to make changes and very likely that had a direct effect on Dan's job. Like so many Americans, his employment was crushed under the ripples from ungoverned speculations and bad financial policy that caused the recession.

Curt Carnes

10:16 am on Friday, June 8, 2012

Prentiss -- there is some truth to what you state. However, it always takes two to tango. Fact of the matter is the banks "careless or bad financial policies," were lapped up by the public. Literally, hundred of thousands of people jumped on the "I can own that now, and worry how to pay for for it five years from now" band wagon, and the recession came because 99% of those people had no more ability to pay for their dreams now, than they did five years ago, when they bought things they couldn't afford.

So, here in lays the problem. Some people have been very responsible and thrifty with their finical assets. Some of us looked at the "teaser rates/packages" the banks were putting out, and had the foresight to say -- No Way, I'm not moving into a house I can't afford, five years from now, on just the hope that I can.

So what happens now? Well, we are already seeing that. BoA under government force is now "forgiving" hundred of thousands of dollars in debt to people who were irresponsible with their finances and telling them, okay we'll make it possible for you to stay in your 4,000 sq ft McMansion, by redistributing the wealth from the people who were smart enough not to fall into this crap, and giving it to you.

" You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the industrious out of it. You don't multiply wealth by dividing it. Government cannot give anything to anybody that it doesn't first take from somebody else." --- Adrian_Rogers

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Dan Grant

1:32 pm on Friday, June 8, 2012

Here is what I don't get Curtis and that is blaming the victims for the Criminal Behavior of the banks and Wall St. Every President for decades has bragged about increasing homeownership including Bush. You give the banks and mortgage people to little blame and their customers to much sophistication in these transactions. Millions of these people who are in trouble now would not be in trouble were it not for the housing bubble. That doesn't make the bulk of them irresponsible. You had a whole system of crooked appraisors, mortgage companies and banks convincing people that they could afford these mortgages and a rising tide on values to support it. None of them got punished. Your closing slogan could well be reversed in that If Government isn't vigilent the "Industrious would rob the pants off the poor."

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Mike

11:08 am on Saturday, June 9, 2012

Dan is right. While the consumers made bad decisions (out of ignorance or lack of due diligence), the PROFESSIONALS who HAD to know better, knowingly made bad calls. Excellent explanation here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx_LWm6_6tA

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Curt Carnes

12:22 pm on Saturday, June 9, 2012

Mike -- Bingo, wasn't that what the OWSers were all about? We are so twisted, people actually expect to get rich in the market, or whatever, and when they do they run off with their profits -- I say Good for them.

However, on the other hand, when they lose, OMG, they demand Uncle Sam reach into someone else's pocket and give them back their money!

Okay kiddies here's a BIG HINT FOR YOU! People only make money on Wall Street, Because Other People Lose it!

Simple isn't it?

Oh and sadly, many of these people who were "taken advantage of" by Wall Street, or the housing market, walk around carrying $75,000 degrees in they hands that says they are smart. I don't know, but I bet you a high school drop out can figure he can't afford a $700,000 house, on his $23,000/year job, regardless of what the guys in the snappy suits and marble walled offices are telling him!

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Mike

1:34 pm on Saturday, June 9, 2012

The 0.1% are very happy with socialism when their ventures lose money; when it benefits the commonfolk, it's anathema.

Curt Carnes

7:06 am on Saturday, June 9, 2012

Dan, we've hit common ground. I agree there were crooked appraisors, real estate agents, mortgage companies and banks convincing people they could afford these mortgages, and none of them got punished!

Some should be punished, particularly the crooked appraisers, and bankers who have a fiduciary responsibility to be honest with the public.

However, all that said -- It still takes two to tango, and without the ignorant consumer none of this would have happened.

I know a person who truly thought he'd get rich from Facebook stock. He'd seek advise from people he knew about buying the FB, IPO, or stock when it hit the market, and many of us told him it is overvalued and risky to say the least. He would listen to us? Nope! He just listen to others who felt the same. So, now he's part of the growing group of people who want the government to get their money back, because as we all know FB didn't pan out so well.

Funny thing however. I ask him if FB doubled or tripled like he thought it was going to, would he be asking the government to help him spend his gains? Guess what his answer was?

Caveat Empor, Dan. Every American is capable to think and decide for themselves. We don't need a self serving, expensive government, or large sets of regulations, in place of God given common sense to protect us.

" Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Ben Franklin

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Prentiss Gray

8:03 am on Saturday, June 9, 2012

I was tempted by Facebook myself, but I was saved by the size of the blocks you had to but. So far, it's no apple.

It's easy to forget what 2006 and 2007 were like, heady times with the market continually rising. I'm sure most of the people buying houses during those times felt sure they could afford them, they were easy Pickens. After all, we're all a little frightened when we first buy into a mortgage. But after time we start making more and it becomes less and less burdensome. I can't vilify someone who went for their dream and failed. I think differently about institutions whose business it was to be prudent but acted irresponsibly.

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Mike

10:39 am on Saturday, June 9, 2012

Just like kids who do nothing all school year but expect "extra credit" assignments to enable them to pass. They grow up to lose money on stock and other investments/gambles and expect someone else to make it all better.

been there done that

6:03 pm on Saturday, June 9, 2012

First, anyone who thinks that the mortgage crisis was all Wall Street & the banks is just another tool of the Dems & NYT. There are tens of thousands of people out there that applied for mortgages and knowingly gave false info. Additionally, Congress (mainly Barney Frank) had an enormous role to play: first, by forcing FHLMC & FNMA to buy low income loans in such volumes that they lowered standards dramatically and second by allowing them to get insane pay packages. The effective "quid pro quo" here was that Barney wouldn't bother to rein in pay or financial leverage/risk as long as FH&FN kept buying low income loans. Look where that got us!
Additionally, there have been THOUSANDS of prosecutions against dirty appraisers, real estate agents, and homeowners. Check out http://mortgagefraudblog.com/
for the details. It's not as sexy as throwing a Wall Street executive in jail, but it just proves my point that this problem was caused by EVERYONE: Wall Street, our beloved politicians (mainly Dems), the real estate industry, and the average homeowner. NO group should escape blame!

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VietNam Vet

1:44 am on Sunday, June 10, 2012

What no one understands is the mortgage mess was all because of Clinton, the draft dodger. I have it all in black and white {In print, that is} he caused the whole mess with the sub-prime mortgages.

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Mike

8:28 am on Sunday, June 10, 2012

Bill Clinton ignored Monica just long enough to do just that. George W Bush had just 8 years to fix the mess, and almost did, but damn those term limits! I heard that since Palin read "everything" (her answer, not mine), she was in an excellent position to draft a plan to finally take care of that mess.

I dare you to watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx_LWm6_6tA

Dan Grant

7:47 am on Sunday, June 10, 2012

Paul, I thank you for your service but I don't think you knew what you were fighting for. You still seem to want to argue about a war that started 50 years ago and insult anyone who differs from you now. You have no idea how I lived my life. The Presidency of the United States is the expression of the will of the people on election day. You may not like their choice but it ought to be respected. That is the democratic process that you served to defend. The people that advised Bush to go to war were all non-military in fact if you want to talk about draft dodgers why not include Cheney? This whole conversation is about how to get a job in a tough market not how to insult people for idealogical reasons.

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Mike

8:31 am on Sunday, June 10, 2012

I'll add that even though I think Paul's posts (I don't know Paul, but I see his posts; don't conflate the two) are asinine drivel and a result of an overdose (of FOX News and NJ 101.5-FM, I will defend is right to do so. I must add, though, that the 2nd Amendment comes after the 1st.

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VietNam Vet

12:49 am on Monday, June 11, 2012

Dan, inspite of what you may think, I knew what I was fighting for, and I actually enjoyed my time in Viet Nam and I was asked today if I had to do it over today, would I go back, and all I could say was when do we leave. I would still go and do what I did again, I enjoyed the people and the country. Thats more than I can say for someone who is trying to sell our country out to the Arabs. If he is so good why won't he approve the Keystone Pipeline, which will create thousands of jobs, the enviroment is not the reason, he is catering to the oil companies to give them just what they want and he promised.... Higher prices. He has already said he didn't care if gas went to $10.00 a gallon... explain that away.

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Mike

8:19 am on Monday, June 11, 2012

Pipelines to Canada or anywhere else do NOT add to the US oil or gasoline supplies. Refined gasoline is now the top EXPORT of the US. Adding gasoline to the world market does next to nothing to reduce prices here or increase supplies. Oil and gasoline are global commodities. It is a MYTH that drilling in ANWR or these pipelines will decrease US dependence on Middle East oil.

Another reason to be wary of pipelines is stuff like this:
http://www.examiner.com/article/oil-pipeline-bursts-canada-dumping-crude-oil-into-river

been there done that

9:34 am on Sunday, June 10, 2012

Mike, I watched the youtube piece;its really designed as an "entry-level" analysis. The CDO problems came at the end of this mortgage/credit cycle, which had been building for 15 + years, and undoubtedly made the problem worse (first by prolonging it, second by making the leverage even worse). If you're serious about understanding the situation in a more sophisticated manner, read http://www.aei.org/papers/economics/fiscal-policy/dissent-from-the-majority-report-of-the-financial-crisis-inquiry-commission-paper/....this really gets to the massive policy errors of Congress, the very entity which is now in charge of fixing the problem!

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Mike

10:01 am on Sunday, June 10, 2012

Thanks for the link. I assume most don't have MBAs in finance, hence my link to a simple explanation (target audience and all that). Interesting that you cite Congress while most blame Obama. According to the Right, he is simultaneously inept and inert yet influential enough to destroy the most powerful nation on earth in 3 yrs despite a Republican House and SCOTUS.

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Al Iervolino

7:36 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012

Mike I disagree with your pipeline comments. I believe in the theory of supply and demand. Just look at what fracking has done to the price of natural gas. Regarding your link. Accidents happen. It’s how they are managed that is the issue. People get in car accidents all the time, should we stop driving? we shouldn't use spills as a reason not to build pipelines.

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been there done that

8:26 pm on Monday, June 11, 2012

MIke, don't mean to demean the link, just think (hope?) we're all more capable than that...I don't think anyone blames Obama for the mortgage mess; he inherited a tough situation but clearly is not the man for the job

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